A lot of C-64 fans like to switch on their machines just for listening to SID tunes once in a while, but what they don't ever expect is to hear them when they switch on the radio. If life somehow takes you to Davis, California by chance, you will get a big surprise, because this is Hard Hat Mack country and things are a bit different there...

by Wanja Gayk

GO64!: Hello, Justin! In the introductory text I already said that things are a bit different in Davis, California, and people may have a rough idea about what I was aiming at with my words. Would you tell them why exactly Davis is Hard Hat Mack country??

Justin:  Oh boy, that's probably an exaggeration!  I think, though, that building interest in this music is an important and fun thing to do, and I'm very happy to be doing it. I haven't been this obsessed with a hobby in a long time, maybe forever. Saying that this is "Hard Hat Mack country" makes me feel a bit self-conscious, because all I can safely take credit for is that I've played a lot of SID music on the radio in this area. The real core of the scene are all the people actually making this stuff, the demo groups and others, like the HVSC (High Voltage Sid Collection) crew. The radio thing is about developing a larger fan base for the music--a good thing, of course. Maybe one could say that a northern California scene is developing (or redeveloping?) a lot.

GO64!:  When you first got the idea of making such a radio show, did you think it would become reality one day, or did you think that this was just way too crazy?

Justin:  Since 1997 I had been doing a regular show on KDVS, playing electronic and experimental music. A friend of mine, who I'll just call communist64 and who is also a C-64 enthusiast, made me a CD-R of some tunes, and the obvious thing was to put the thing on the radio. It was a one-off at first. A few weeks later, after the Shark contacted me and I saw that a lot of this music was easily available, I figured why the hell not just do a weekly show?  I didn't think it would be all that crazy, partly because KDVS is a station where doing something different is considered normal. Also, I think radio is the perfect forum for SID
music. I was blown away by all the immediate interest in it!  And I was grateful that people into the scene were so willing to help me out and re-introduce me to what was going on. I felt like a bit of an outsider at first, but I'm more comfortable now.

GO64!: I bet the people in the radio station looked quite baffled when you finally carried a C-64 into the room...

Justin:  Imagine people's reaction when you run around a track with one (see my home page for the picture)!  Yeah, people are sometimes confused by the whole thing, which I don't mind. I do mind if they treat it condescendingly, as if C-64 music is somehow not legitimate. Recently I played a couple of small sets of SID tunes in between a couple of local alternative rock bands at an outdoor university festival. It was so out of context, as I was there playing Swedish drum and bass songs and Norwegian funk on a C-64. A couple of people were cool and came up to talk to me about it, but mostly people were walking away or staring blankly. When I was starting the second set, one kid even had the nerve to say, "Oh no, not this Nintendo crap again."  When I pointed to the Commodore logo, he couldn't believe it was an actual Commodore. It made him smile!

GO64!: Before I continue asking about your show, let's get back to the beginning of the story. Would you tell the readers about your "first contact" (with computers, the C-64, etc..)?

Justin: With computers, I think it was probably the Apple II, which I was introduced to in elementary school. The thing I remember most about that machine was the "Eliza" program, which was that computerized therapist thing. My first contact with the C-64 was somewhere between 1983 and 1984. A school friend of mine got one. Oddly enough, the first thing I remember seeing him do on it was paint an American flag on the screen. Incidentally, the first time I saw Pac Man was in a Shakey's Pizza parlor on the way to a trip to Hollywood to watch a taping of "Happy Days."  I just felt I had to mention that.

GO64!: Does your nickname "Hard Hat Mack" have a special meaning?

Justin: It's just the name of the old video game. The C-64 version came out in 1983. It's a good DJ name because it expresses excitement, toughness, action, you know. Ironically, the game itself didn't have very spectacular music. In fact, the music played only while your guy (Hard Hat Mack) ran around. I can't remember if I ever got past level two on that thing!!

GO64!: Did you ever have contacts to the C-64 demo/cracking scene ?

Justin: Only very indirectly. I knew very few people where I lived as a kid (Riverside, California) who were into all this. I did know one kid who was heavily into BBS activity and always downloading tons of stuff, but I never quite had the courage, I think, to get into that. It was rather intimidating, I guess!  I was always impressed by the insane demos that crackers would stick at the beginning of a game.

GO64!: So, what is the actual equipment you use for your shows?

Justin: Usually these days it's my Pentium (ughhh) with the HardSID sound card, the SIDPlay program, and the HVSC. I run the HardSID through a Rane equalizer to shape the sound a little better. Happily, when I'm playing this stuff on the radio, I have the pleasure of hearing it in the studio on professional equipment, so the sound is incredible!

GO64!: Did you have any problems connecting a C-64 to the studio equipment?

Justin: Yeah, did you hear those embarassing shows where I couldn't get it hooked up correctly?  That was kind of a nightmare at first!  With the help of some friends, though, I managed to get it sorted out okay. I've recently begun to use a turntable mixer in between my HardSID and a C-64C (with the 8580 chip) so that I can more properly crossfade the tunes. Maybe a little beat-matching, mixing, etc. will come next.

GO64!: For those who haven't yet heard your show, could you briefly describe how such a radio show is made, what you're talking about in this show (if you're talking at all), etc.?

Justin: The show wouldn't be possible without the High Voltage SID Collection (that's where I get most of my material) and the SIDPlay tool. I spend a few days arranging a playlist, and then I just go to the studio, hook up the equipment, start SIDPlay, and the rest pretty much follows. I don't talk too much, because I only have an hour, and I want to fit in as much music as I can. When I do talk, it's usually just to announce the names of the tunes and the composers. On a few occasions I have interviewed famous people, like Rob Hubbard and Tim Follin, as well as the Shark, who founded the HVSC. I'd like to do more such interviews in the future.

GO64!: The "problem" with C-64 sound is that it is in mono. Do you keep it in mono, or do you somehow convert it to a pseudo-stereo signal for your shows to get a better sound?

Justin: I honestly much prefer the mono sound over the pseudo-stereo sort of effect!  So, it's always mono and will probably stay that way.

GO64!: I bet you have played hundreds of C-64 sounds by now; do you still have favourites, or are there just too many good ones to remember?

Justin: Well, I'm still at the stage where I'm constantly discovering more and more tunes that I really like that sort of become instant favorites. Some old favorites kind of get forgotten but not all of them. Right now I'm listening to a lot of funk, disco, techno, and prog rock style tunes. Stuff that has an exciting sound to it and that has complex arrangements and rhythms is the sort that I'm most interested in hearing and playing. There's the nostalgia factor, too, but it's not as important to me as just well-written music.

GO64!: Do you get feedback on your show? What do people say about it?

Justin: When I first began the show, I posted a few messages to the newsgroups (alt.c64, comp.sys.cbm, comp.emulators.cbm). The response was overwhelming!  I had no idea so many people would support such a project; in fact, I really wasn't aware that the C-64 scene was so alive and strong!  Nearly all or perhaps all of the feedback I've received has been extremely positive. Usually people just say, "SID music rules!!" or something like that. Even people who had never heard SID music before listening to my show have been enthusiastic.

GO64!: What is so special about the SID sound in your opinion? I remember that years ago my mom always told me to turn down the volume of this horrible music. C-64 freaks seem to see (better, hear) that from a different perspective...

Justin: SID music was among the very first stuff I was interested in listening to. I remember once, back in the mid-eighties, trying to get a friend to listen to Ratt and Twisted Sister, while he wanted me to appreciate Paul Norman's "Forbidden Forest" music. Fifteen years later, it's pretty clear what has had more of a significant effect on me (ha ha). Beyond any effect of nostalgia, I think that the SID sound just has inherent appeal. I genuinely enjoy the sounds and textures. I appreciate the simplicity on the one hand, and the complexity which people manage to accomplish on the other hand. I like the fact that people aren't afraid to make fun-sounding music on it and that they manage to create very sophisticated musical pieces using (seemingly) very primitive technology.

[Read more about this topic and much more in the current GO64!-issue]